songs that make a big deal about how she was just seventeen! (you know what I mean!) really haven’t aged well
that second verse better be about you backing off and deciding to ping her on Facebook in a few years time
that second verse better be about you backing off and deciding to ping her on Facebook in a few years time
McCartney wrote the “just seventeen” line and it was released when he was only twenty one. That’s not really that creepy.
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Dancing with someone who’s seventeen => not really that creepy
Dancing with someone with emphasis on how they’re just seventeen (you know what I mean) => somehow much, much creepier
Dancing with someone with emphasis on how they’re just seventeen (you know what I mean) => somehow much, much creepier
Dancing
with a seventeen year old is a thing that could totally happen
naturally if you’re in a place where both dancing and seventeen year
olds are allowed to coexist. Knowing that she was just seventeen
(especially “just” - does that mean she turned seventeen last week or
that you are particularly pleased with her age) means that at some point
after you saw her standing there you confirmed her age before dancing
with her and “seventeen” was an age that fell into your “I’ll never
dance with another” set.
Also if there are any young women who happen to be reading this “how old are you” being asked by a man who is older than you in a social circumstance that is usually linked to romance or dating (so if you’re at club or a bar or a coffee shop depending on the circumstances) is kinda creepy so maybe hang out with a friend and dance with your pals for the rest of the evening instead of dancing with the dude who has just confirmed that you’re a minor and is now trying to initiate an action that involves him putting his hands on you.
Also if there are any young women who happen to be reading this “how old are you” being asked by a man who is older than you in a social circumstance that is usually linked to romance or dating (so if you’re at club or a bar or a coffee shop depending on the circumstances) is kinda creepy so maybe hang out with a friend and dance with your pals for the rest of the evening instead of dancing with the dude who has just confirmed that you’re a minor and is now trying to initiate an action that involves him putting his hands on you.
Other
songs like this from the ‘50s/early ‘60s include “Sweet Little
Sixteen”, “Sixteen Candles”, “You’re Sixteen, You’re Beautiful, and
You’re Mine”, “Hey Little Schoolgirl”, “High School Confidential”, etc
etc etc, mostly written by men well into their 20s and 30s. I grew up
hearing a lot of these songs because my parents were into early Rock n
Roll from that time frame. You think nothing of the lyrics when you’re
like 8 or 9 years old, but as a “woke”/pissed-off college student, the
creepiness of these songs, along with their normalization of really
young girls as sex objects, is undeniable.
Some people would argue that since Rock n Roll was so rooted in rebellious teenagers at the time (the same 1950s “Juvenile Delinquent” culture that John Waters loved both encapsulating and lampooning in his movies) and therefore the teenage experience that songwriters were just writing from the perspectives of their teenage selves in order to make money from the trend. Personally…I’m not so sure. Let’s take some things into consideration:
Jerry Lee Lewis of course married his 13-year-old cousin Myra Brown when he was 22. Chuck Berry got into serious legal trouble for transporting a minor (a 14-year-old girl) over state lines who wasn’t a blood relative, and you can draw your on conclusions as to what they were going to do. Elvis Presley used to have “sleepovers” with teenage girls - some insist he never slept with them, but it’s still creepy af that a grown man would have sleepovers with any underage child (see also: Michael Jackson). It seems like some of these guys were writing or at least performing songs that expressed their desire for girls who they felt were too young to say “no”.
Then of course you had that period of time in the ‘70s when hooking up with teenage girls wasn’t only bragged about in song, but also flaunted out in the open and gossiped about in local ‘zines. Girls like Sable Starr and Lori Mattix became mini-celebrities for sleeping with guys like Iggy Pop, Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Johnny Thunders, etc. when they were barely old enough to enter high school. Nobody blinked at this shit back then, because somehow it was just “normal”. The “free love” attitude of the ‘60s got subverted into excusing hebephilia or celebrating it. I really don’t think anybody gave a fuck back then, or if they did they stayed silent.
Regarding Paul McCartney’s lyric in “I Saw Her Standing There”, I think he was probably trying to find something to fit the meter/rhyme more than anything else, plus if I’m not mistaken 16 is the age people are considered adults in the United Kingdom (correct me if I’m wrong). 70-something Paul McCartney singing that line sounds creepy as hell though; he didn’t think that one through too well. It’s kind of comparable to Joan Jett being 60-something and singing “He was just about 17″ in “I Love Rock n Roll” (showing that it’s not just men doing this in songs, although that song was written by a man).
I don’t know. The music industry is always going to be full of creeps who try to normalize the sexual exploitation of teenage girls through catchy songs. As much as I actually do love rock music, there are some kind of ick foundations for every rock genre laid down by these guys from back in the day, who were of course influenced by blues musicians who did many of the same abusive/creepy things (looking at you, Muddy Waters).
Some people would argue that since Rock n Roll was so rooted in rebellious teenagers at the time (the same 1950s “Juvenile Delinquent” culture that John Waters loved both encapsulating and lampooning in his movies) and therefore the teenage experience that songwriters were just writing from the perspectives of their teenage selves in order to make money from the trend. Personally…I’m not so sure. Let’s take some things into consideration:
Jerry Lee Lewis of course married his 13-year-old cousin Myra Brown when he was 22. Chuck Berry got into serious legal trouble for transporting a minor (a 14-year-old girl) over state lines who wasn’t a blood relative, and you can draw your on conclusions as to what they were going to do. Elvis Presley used to have “sleepovers” with teenage girls - some insist he never slept with them, but it’s still creepy af that a grown man would have sleepovers with any underage child (see also: Michael Jackson). It seems like some of these guys were writing or at least performing songs that expressed their desire for girls who they felt were too young to say “no”.
Then of course you had that period of time in the ‘70s when hooking up with teenage girls wasn’t only bragged about in song, but also flaunted out in the open and gossiped about in local ‘zines. Girls like Sable Starr and Lori Mattix became mini-celebrities for sleeping with guys like Iggy Pop, Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Johnny Thunders, etc. when they were barely old enough to enter high school. Nobody blinked at this shit back then, because somehow it was just “normal”. The “free love” attitude of the ‘60s got subverted into excusing hebephilia or celebrating it. I really don’t think anybody gave a fuck back then, or if they did they stayed silent.
Regarding Paul McCartney’s lyric in “I Saw Her Standing There”, I think he was probably trying to find something to fit the meter/rhyme more than anything else, plus if I’m not mistaken 16 is the age people are considered adults in the United Kingdom (correct me if I’m wrong). 70-something Paul McCartney singing that line sounds creepy as hell though; he didn’t think that one through too well. It’s kind of comparable to Joan Jett being 60-something and singing “He was just about 17″ in “I Love Rock n Roll” (showing that it’s not just men doing this in songs, although that song was written by a man).
I don’t know. The music industry is always going to be full of creeps who try to normalize the sexual exploitation of teenage girls through catchy songs. As much as I actually do love rock music, there are some kind of ick foundations for every rock genre laid down by these guys from back in the day, who were of course influenced by blues musicians who did many of the same abusive/creepy things (looking at you, Muddy Waters).
Hmm,
interesting to look at the way it’s changed over the years. The Beatles
and Elvis seem really innocent compared to the seventies and eighties
(though look up the lyrics to Elvis’s “Little Sister” if you ever want
to be extra-super skeeved out, oh and what’s that there’s a Ringo song
about falling in love with a sixteen year old that he sang when he was
33yo nevermind, maybe there isn’t that much of a change.)
Kiss’s incredibly creepy “Christine 16,” Great White’s “Once Bitten Twice Shy,” Winger’s “She’s only 17,” Foreigner’s “17,” The Knack’s “My Sharona,” are all gross as fuck and OH HOLY SHIT TAKE A LOOK AT The Rolling Stones in ‘68 handily winning the title of “gross song champion” with “Stray Cat Blues.” Wow, the Rolling Stones seem to win a lot of “gross song champion” titles, funny that, please remember that Brown Sugar is about raping a slave who can’t refuse sex kthxbai.
Fuck. Has it changed much?
Well. When looking up this stuff I wasn’t able to find much of the “dude lusting after a younger partner” later than the mid 80s - with The Police’s “Don’t Stand so Close to Me,” George Michael’s “Father Figure,” and Winger. (Also does the entire movie Labyrinth count? I feel like it should count.)
In fact it may have gone the other way around? In the mid-80s we started seeing things like Van Halen’s “Hot for Teacher” but does the trope have the same implications if it’s the voice of a younger person pining after an older person who doesn’t care about (or notice) them? Fountains of Wayne’s “Stacy’s mom” fits this pattern as well.
Buuuuuut in the 90s we also started getting shit that’s straight-up from the voice of a minor singing about statutory Rape with Aaliyah’s “Age Ain’t Nothin’ but a Number” (minor consents but hey that doesn’t matter you’re a minor) and Hi-Five’s “Just can’t handle it” (minor gets in over their head and either prematurely ejaculates or realizes they’re too young for this shit).
Anyway flash forward to now and check out CupcakKe’s “Pedophile” which is a song about an older person grooming a 15 year old for sex and that names the older person as a pedophile and correctly identifies the younger person the victim. Hell, how is CupcakKe going to feel singing “Pedophile” in ten or twenty years? Well, it’ll probably age better than a 70-year-old Eddie Van Halen (or let’s be real a 70yo Sammy Hagar) singing “Hot for Teacher.”
And HT to the excellent @thinkingupblognamesishard who reached out to talk about the age of consent in the UK - if it isn’t still sixteen in 2017 it certainly was when McCartney wrote the song, and dancehall culture at the time would have meant that it wasn’t at all unusual for a young adult to dance with someone who was still a minor but over the age of consent. (Though for real that doesn’t much change the creepiness factor of “You’re sixteen, you’re beautiful, and you’re mine.” TF, Ringo?)
Kiss’s incredibly creepy “Christine 16,” Great White’s “Once Bitten Twice Shy,” Winger’s “She’s only 17,” Foreigner’s “17,” The Knack’s “My Sharona,” are all gross as fuck and OH HOLY SHIT TAKE A LOOK AT The Rolling Stones in ‘68 handily winning the title of “gross song champion” with “Stray Cat Blues.” Wow, the Rolling Stones seem to win a lot of “gross song champion” titles, funny that, please remember that Brown Sugar is about raping a slave who can’t refuse sex kthxbai.
Fuck. Has it changed much?
Well. When looking up this stuff I wasn’t able to find much of the “dude lusting after a younger partner” later than the mid 80s - with The Police’s “Don’t Stand so Close to Me,” George Michael’s “Father Figure,” and Winger. (Also does the entire movie Labyrinth count? I feel like it should count.)
In fact it may have gone the other way around? In the mid-80s we started seeing things like Van Halen’s “Hot for Teacher” but does the trope have the same implications if it’s the voice of a younger person pining after an older person who doesn’t care about (or notice) them? Fountains of Wayne’s “Stacy’s mom” fits this pattern as well.
Buuuuuut in the 90s we also started getting shit that’s straight-up from the voice of a minor singing about statutory Rape with Aaliyah’s “Age Ain’t Nothin’ but a Number” (minor consents but hey that doesn’t matter you’re a minor) and Hi-Five’s “Just can’t handle it” (minor gets in over their head and either prematurely ejaculates or realizes they’re too young for this shit).
Anyway flash forward to now and check out CupcakKe’s “Pedophile” which is a song about an older person grooming a 15 year old for sex and that names the older person as a pedophile and correctly identifies the younger person the victim. Hell, how is CupcakKe going to feel singing “Pedophile” in ten or twenty years? Well, it’ll probably age better than a 70-year-old Eddie Van Halen (or let’s be real a 70yo Sammy Hagar) singing “Hot for Teacher.”
And HT to the excellent @thinkingupblognamesishard who reached out to talk about the age of consent in the UK - if it isn’t still sixteen in 2017 it certainly was when McCartney wrote the song, and dancehall culture at the time would have meant that it wasn’t at all unusual for a young adult to dance with someone who was still a minor but over the age of consent. (Though for real that doesn’t much change the creepiness factor of “You’re sixteen, you’re beautiful, and you’re mine.” TF, Ringo?)
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